Discussion:
Our guiding light - prejudice or truth?
(too old to reply)
V
2005-10-11 15:59:43 UTC
Permalink
I was at a religious discussion one time where the group was composed
of a wide spectrum of believers and non believers. One atheist said he
ran his life by the golden rule. Another person piped up that the
golden rule came from the bible, which made the atheist wince. The
atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not like
to run his life by anything that came out of the bible. Every religion
was made by man and as such every religion is imperfect as it is run by
man. Despite these imperfections, each religion also has many
"perfection's" within it as well. We can still be open to peace
generating tools from any of the religions and spiritual traditions
that are available to us if we are serious about being at peace. This
requires us to run our life by truth and not by prejudice. In the
Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Therefore, whatever you want men to
do to you, do also to them" (Matthew 7:12). Nowadays this verse is
commonly referred to as "The Golden Rule," and is more commonly
quoted as: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Now, whether you believe in God or believe in Jesus or are an atheist
or Buddhist does this wisdom not apply to you? In this case, you can
adopt a peace generating tool from the Christians and apply it to your
life irrespective of your religious beliefs or lack thereof. Wisdom for
living a life at peace is all around us for the taking. But many of us
get blinded with labels and personal prejudices. As such, I practice
from many religious and spiritual traditions without problems or
prejudices and readily look for such gifts irrespective of what label
they come under - on the contrary I am most grateful wherever I find
them.

The Muslims have a practice of praying five times a day to Allah. For
those that do not know, Allah is the same God of the Jews and of the
Old Testament that the Christians worship. The Muslims pray at sun up,
when the sun is at its zenith at noon, when the sun is part way down in
the afternoon, when the sun sets and when they go to bed. Even though I
am a Christian and not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer
schedule to use as a reminder for my own prayers. If you are an Atheist
you can borrow the Muslim's prayer schedule to be mindful of
"gratitude" in your life - you can commune with the universe for all
the good that that has been given to you at these same prayer times the
Muslims use. If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude,
then what about using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your
breath, practice mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the
present moment? When you have come to a point of gratitude for being
able to open your eyes in the morning and being able to take a breath
of air everything else is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an
important part with finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the
present moment and being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness
to wander.

A group of Catholic nuns has a motto of "Charity, Simplicity and
Humility." Are these not all qualities we can benefit from whether Jew,
Protestant or Atheists? If we think not, then what about developing
peace from the opposite end of the spectrum by using Selfishness,
Complex Living and Pride? Well, all these qualities whether they be the
first group or the second are needed for a balanced life. The key here
is that of balance and not to get too far in the extreme territory -
for even though water and air are life sustaining necessities, too much
of them will still kill us. The point I am trying to make is this; no
need to discriminate or form prejudices against other religions - just
take what you can apply from these spiritual traditions and use it in
your own life to develop peace and contentment within yourself - all it
takes is being honest, open and willing.

One time I asked an old Catholic priest if he ever studied about
Buddhism when he was training in the seminary. He scowled at me like I
was the devil shaking his head and quickly walking away from me. If he
was a little more open minded to finding inner peace he might have been
able to adopt a few peace generating tools from the Buddhists. Many
monotheists believe that Buddhists worship the Buddha like he was a God
/ god. Well, some do, the misguided ones, but the Buddha was just a
human, like the rest of us. Some misguided Christians worship the Pope
or a favorite saint, so this worshiping of humans is not limited to the
Buddhists. Before leaving his family and princely life for that of a
renunciate, the Buddha was Prince Siddhartha of India. Some of
Siddhartha's concepts were borrowed from the Hindu's. He added a few
things and now other spiritual practitioners are borrowing them from
him. Catholic priests are not exempt from being at peace either as the
recent headlines shows. With just a little open mindedness, that old
priest could have made use of many easily adopted peace generating
tools from Buddhism. If you look into your own life, you will see
anyone can make use of these 3 pillars of Buddhism that are common to
all schools of Buddhist practice. Such tools are available to all
irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof. What is
stopping you from your life of inner peace?

1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.

2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.

3- The development of compassion for others.

The Gnostic gospel of Thomas was not included in the New Testament due
to prejudice. Gnosticism was persecuted at that time and the bishop in
charge of what went into the bible only wanted 4 gospels in the new
testament. The reason the bishop liked the idea of 4 gospels stemmed
from his predisposition with the number 4. There were 4 seasons, 4
directions , (north, south, east and west), the human body had 4 limbs
and so on. Jesus' quote in Thomas's gospel sums up man's quest for
enlightenment very succinctly in an almost eastern like fashion.

"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied,
'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said -
look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out
upon the earth and men do not see it."

The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek the
truth and come to peace within to realize this.




V (Male)


For access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive
spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write:
***@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not
the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.
Raist
2005-10-11 18:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
I was at a religious discussion one time where the group was composed
of a wide spectrum of believers and non believers. One atheist said he
ran his life by the golden rule. Another person piped up that the
golden rule came from the bible, which made the atheist wince. The
atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not like
to run his life by anything that came out of the bible.
He needn't have worried.

* ~1970-1640 BCE "Do for one who may do for you, / That you may
cause him thus to do." - The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110,
Ancient Egypt, tr. R.B. Parkinson.
* ~700 BCE "That nature only is good when it shall not do unto
another whatever is not good for its own self." - Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5,
Zoroastrianism.
* ? BCE "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto
others." - Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29, Zoroastrianism.
* ~550 BCE "You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against
your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD." - Tanakh,
new JPS translation, Leviticus 19:18, Judaism.
* ~500 BCE "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find
hurtful." - Udana-Varga 5:18, Buddhism.
* ~500 BCE "The Sage...makes the self of the people his self." Tao
Te Ching Ch 49, tr. Ch'u Ta-Kao, Unwin Paperbacks, 1976. Daoism
* ~500 BCE "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to
others." Analects of Confucius 15:24, Confucianism, tr. James Legge.[1]
* ~500 BCE "Now the man of perfect virtue, wishing to be
established himself, seeks also to establish others; wishing to be
enlarged himself, he seeks also to enlarge others. To be able to judge
of others by what is nigh in ourselves;? this may be called the art of
virtue." Analects of Confucius 6:30, Confucianism, tr. James Legge. [2]
* ~500 BCE "one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for
life [is] reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not
desire." - Doctrine of the Mean 13.3, Confucianism.
* ~500 BCE "Therefore, neither does he cause violence to others nor
does he make others do so." - Acarangasutra 5.101-2, Jainism.
* ~400 BCE "Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you
by others." - Socrates.
* ~200 BCE "What you hate, do not do to anyone." - Deuterocanonical
Bible, NRSV, Tobit 4:15, Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Christianity.
* ~150 BCE "This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which
would cause you pain if done to you." - Mahabharata 5:1517, Brahmanism
and Hinduism.
* ~100 CE "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This
is the law: all the rest is commentary." - Hillel; Talmud, Shabbat 31a,
Judaism.
* ~100 CE "Do to others as you would have them do to you." - Bible,
NIV, Gospel of Luke 6:31, Christianity
* ~100 CE "What you would avoid suffering yourself, seek not to
impose on others." - Epictetus.
* ~7th century "No one of you is a believer until he desires for
his brother (fellow Muslim) that which he desires for himself." - Hadith
recorded by al-Bukhari, Islam.
* ? CE "And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou
for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." - Epistle to
the Son of the Wolf, 30, Bahá'í Faith.
* ~1870 CE "He should not wish for others what he does not wish for
himself." - Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf Bahá'í Faith.
* 1999 CE "don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you."
- British Humanist society, Humanism.

Snipped from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity


Your post was not without merit, but I thought it bore mentioning that
the Christians don't have a monopoly on that particular ethical idea. In
fact it seems to me that anything of value in Christianity was probably
stolen wholesale from a preceeding religion. I could, of course, be
wrong about that, but I have yet to encounter an example.

R.
c***@gmail.com
2005-10-15 16:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Listen, honey, you're pointed in the right direction. Just, please,
don't make the mistake of talking to an idiot on their level.

By the way, have we met? I have no memory at all.

Lushie
j***@bellsouth.net
2005-10-16 01:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Listen, honey, you're pointed in the right direction. Just, please,
don't make the mistake of talking to an idiot on their level.
By the way, have we met? I have no memory at all.
Lushie
The "5 T rum" in your toddy recipe stood for Tablespoons; not Tubfulls.
Correct that and your memory will come back in no time.
Raist
2005-10-16 10:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Listen, honey, you're pointed in the right direction. Just, please,
don't make the mistake of talking to an idiot on their level.
Heh. I always start polite :o) Its up to the other person if I stay that
way...
Post by c***@gmail.com
By the way, have we met? I have no memory at all.
Yeppers. I was Relayer for many years. Nice to see you here again. I am
an infrequent visitor these days.

R.
Post by c***@gmail.com
Lushie
c***@gmail.com
2005-10-19 12:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Cool, good to see you too.

Lush
Post by Raist
Post by c***@gmail.com
Listen, honey, you're pointed in the right direction. Just, please,
don't make the mistake of talking to an idiot on their level.
Heh. I always start polite :o) Its up to the other person if I stay that
way...
Post by c***@gmail.com
By the way, have we met? I have no memory at all.
Yeppers. I was Relayer for many years. Nice to see you here again. I am
an infrequent visitor these days.
R.
Post by c***@gmail.com
Lushie
c***@gmail.com
2005-10-15 16:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Oh, for fuck's sake.

If I shut my fucking cake hole, will you follow suit? Hows that for an
ethic of reciprocity?

Are you this inane in real life or do you affect a net persona?

Lushie
Post by V
I was at a religious discussion one time where the group was composed
of a wide spectrum of believers and non believers. One atheist said he
ran his life by the golden rule. Another person piped up that the
golden rule came from the bible, which made the atheist wince. The
atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not like
to run his life by anything that came out of the bible. Every religion
was made by man and as such every religion is imperfect as it is run by
man. Despite these imperfections, each religion also has many
"perfection's" within it as well. We can still be open to peace
generating tools from any of the religions and spiritual traditions
that are available to us if we are serious about being at peace. This
requires us to run our life by truth and not by prejudice. In the
Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Therefore, whatever you want men to
do to you, do also to them" (Matthew 7:12). Nowadays this verse is
commonly referred to as "The Golden Rule," and is more commonly
quoted as: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Now, whether you believe in God or believe in Jesus or are an atheist
or Buddhist does this wisdom not apply to you? In this case, you can
adopt a peace generating tool from the Christians and apply it to your
life irrespective of your religious beliefs or lack thereof. Wisdom for
living a life at peace is all around us for the taking. But many of us
get blinded with labels and personal prejudices. As such, I practice
from many religious and spiritual traditions without problems or
prejudices and readily look for such gifts irrespective of what label
they come under - on the contrary I am most grateful wherever I find
them.
The Muslims have a practice of praying five times a day to Allah. For
those that do not know, Allah is the same God of the Jews and of the
Old Testament that the Christians worship. The Muslims pray at sun up,
when the sun is at its zenith at noon, when the sun is part way down in
the afternoon, when the sun sets and when they go to bed. Even though I
am a Christian and not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer
schedule to use as a reminder for my own prayers. If you are an Atheist
you can borrow the Muslim's prayer schedule to be mindful of
"gratitude" in your life - you can commune with the universe for all
the good that that has been given to you at these same prayer times the
Muslims use. If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude,
then what about using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your
breath, practice mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the
present moment? When you have come to a point of gratitude for being
able to open your eyes in the morning and being able to take a breath
of air everything else is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an
important part with finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the
present moment and being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness
to wander.
A group of Catholic nuns has a motto of "Charity, Simplicity and
Humility." Are these not all qualities we can benefit from whether Jew,
Protestant or Atheists? If we think not, then what about developing
peace from the opposite end of the spectrum by using Selfishness,
Complex Living and Pride? Well, all these qualities whether they be the
first group or the second are needed for a balanced life. The key here
is that of balance and not to get too far in the extreme territory -
for even though water and air are life sustaining necessities, too much
of them will still kill us. The point I am trying to make is this; no
need to discriminate or form prejudices against other religions - just
take what you can apply from these spiritual traditions and use it in
your own life to develop peace and contentment within yourself - all it
takes is being honest, open and willing.
One time I asked an old Catholic priest if he ever studied about
Buddhism when he was training in the seminary. He scowled at me like I
was the devil shaking his head and quickly walking away from me. If he
was a little more open minded to finding inner peace he might have been
able to adopt a few peace generating tools from the Buddhists. Many
monotheists believe that Buddhists worship the Buddha like he was a God
/ god. Well, some do, the misguided ones, but the Buddha was just a
human, like the rest of us. Some misguided Christians worship the Pope
or a favorite saint, so this worshiping of humans is not limited to the
Buddhists. Before leaving his family and princely life for that of a
renunciate, the Buddha was Prince Siddhartha of India. Some of
Siddhartha's concepts were borrowed from the Hindu's. He added a few
things and now other spiritual practitioners are borrowing them from
him. Catholic priests are not exempt from being at peace either as the
recent headlines shows. With just a little open mindedness, that old
priest could have made use of many easily adopted peace generating
tools from Buddhism. If you look into your own life, you will see
anyone can make use of these 3 pillars of Buddhism that are common to
all schools of Buddhist practice. Such tools are available to all
irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof. What is
stopping you from your life of inner peace?
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing
non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
The Gnostic gospel of Thomas was not included in the New Testament due
to prejudice. Gnosticism was persecuted at that time and the bishop in
charge of what went into the bible only wanted 4 gospels in the new
testament. The reason the bishop liked the idea of 4 gospels stemmed
from his predisposition with the number 4. There were 4 seasons, 4
directions , (north, south, east and west), the human body had 4 limbs
and so on. Jesus' quote in Thomas's gospel sums up man's quest for
enlightenment very succinctly in an almost eastern like fashion.
"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied,
'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said -
look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out
upon the earth and men do not see it."
The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek the
truth and come to peace within to realize this.
V (Male)
For access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive
the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.
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