Discussion:
Jesus never existed?
(too old to reply)
Religion is a Lie
2003-11-26 22:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc. The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD - it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed in
the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!

Christianity as we know it today stems primarily from the machinations
of the Roman Emperor Constantine early in the 4th cent AD. It was him
who ordered the bible to be compiled. All the property and sacred texts
of the numerous Christian sects that existed at the time was given to
the Catholic Church. Eusebius, a Catholic scholar, was commissioned to
produce 50 copies of the bible for distribution throughout the churches
of Constantinople, Constantine's capital. Constantine himself was NOT A
CHRISTIAN!

The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?

I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".

Newton's Cat <***@my-deja.com>
in Message-ID: <8p5vi2$ft$***@nnrp1.deja.com>
georgann
2003-11-26 22:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc.
georgann, Teflon/Bulova apologist wrote:

Oh grow up little boy.

Why does everyone think to be properly introduced to the alt.atheism
newsgroup they have to do this same shtick on Christians and Jesus Christ?

Don't you see how obvious you are? How desperate you look?

--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»

All your prophecy are belong to Christ!

(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
Blast Femur
2003-11-27 05:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by georgann
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc.
Oh grow up little boy.
Why does everyone think to be properly introduced to the alt.atheism
newsgroup they have to do this same shtick on Christians and Jesus Christ?
Because Christianity and Jesus Christ *are* just that. A schtick.
Post by georgann
Don't you see how obvious you are? How desperate you look?
Et tu, Brute.
--
Blast Femur

______________

"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes
talking to people and guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"

-Paul Provenza
Jon Davis
2003-11-26 23:31:10 UTC
Permalink
*plonk* wheeee!!
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc. The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD - it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed in
the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!
Christianity as we know it today stems primarily from the machinations
of the Roman Emperor Constantine early in the 4th cent AD. It was him
who ordered the bible to be compiled. All the property and sacred texts
of the numerous Christian sects that existed at the time was given to
the Catholic Church. Eusebius, a Catholic scholar, was commissioned to
produce 50 copies of the bible for distribution throughout the churches
of Constantinople, Constantine's capital. Constantine himself was NOT A
CHRISTIAN!
The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?
I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".
Newton Joseph
2003-11-27 00:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Was Jesus a real person? Read;

Ancient Myth and Modern Life by Gerald A. Larue

The Christ Myth by Nicholas Carter

Belief and Make Believe by G.A.Wells

Did Jesus Exist? By G.A. Wells

The Jesus Idea by Arnold M. Rothstein

The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty

Jesus Outside the Bible by. Joseph Hoffman

Jesus in History and Myth by Joseph Hoffman and Gerald A. Larue

What's in a Name by G.A. Wells

Who was Jesus? G.A. Wells

The Myth of the Resurrection by Joseph McCabe

Pagan Christs by J.M. Robertson

The Historical Evidence for Jesus by G.A. Wells

They all generally concur with one another. Now, my point is
that educated and intelligent priests are more or less familiar with these
books and yet they believe. Which proves to me that their life long
conditioning makes them mentally disturbed to believe that these mythical
tales are true.

Newton
JTEM
2003-11-27 01:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newton Joseph
Was Jesus a real person?
Who cares? Honestly.
Roger Pearse
2003-11-27 16:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newton Joseph
Was Jesus a real person? Read;
Ancient Myth and Modern Life by Gerald A. Larue
The Christ Myth by Nicholas Carter
Belief and Make Believe by G.A.Wells
Did Jesus Exist? By G.A. Wells
The Jesus Idea by Arnold M. Rothstein
The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty
Jesus Outside the Bible by. Joseph Hoffman
Jesus in History and Myth by Joseph Hoffman and Gerald A. Larue
What's in a Name by G.A. Wells
Who was Jesus? G.A. Wells
The Myth of the Resurrection by Joseph McCabe
Pagan Christs by J.M. Robertson
The Historical Evidence for Jesus by G.A. Wells
They all generally concur with one another.
A certain repetition of names, there! No wonder Mr. Wells agrees with
other books by Mr. Wells. Mind you, I'm not sure why the religious
maunderings of a retired professor of German should be of interest to
anyone.
Post by Newton Joseph
Now, my point isthat educated and intelligent priests are more or less
familiar with these books and yet they believe. Which proves to me that their
life long conditioning makes them mentally disturbed to believe that these
mythical tales are true.
I don't think anyone outside a handful of cranks bothers with these
books, or the other atheist pamphlets like them. The question you
need to ask is not why 'priests' ignore them, but why educated people
of all classes and religions ignore them, and in particular scholars
ignore them.

The answer, btw, is that they are pieces of special pleading, one and
all. No sensible person doubts that some guy with a beard and a towel
on his head was doing the rounds on a soapbox in 30AD. That's how
every ideological movement starts. (The towel is optional; the beard
seems mandatory).

Whether he was the Son of God is another question, which is treated at
length with much more disagreement, or, in some cases, envy. Don't
try feeding the 5000 at home, folks.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
angelicusrex
2003-11-27 03:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc.
Can you prove this? There is a lot of archaelogical evidence that
Christianity was well established in the 1st Century A.D. Writers mention
them, records of Rome mention them, there are artifacts that are Christian.
Post by Religion is a Lie
The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD -
Pauline doctrine is not the only mention of Jesus.
Post by Religion is a Lie
it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed in
the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!
But there is evidence. As I said.
Post by Religion is a Lie
Christianity as we know it today stems primarily from the machinations
of the Roman Emperor Constantine early in the 4th cent AD. It was him
who ordered the bible to be compiled.
From gospels and letters extent and written in the 1st Century A.D. The
first Century is the year 1 to 100. Do you really think it was created in a
vacuum out of the whole cloth?
Post by Religion is a Lie
All the property and sacred texts
of the numerous Christian sects that existed at the time was given to
the Catholic Church. Eusebius, a Catholic scholar, was commissioned to
produce 50 copies of the bible for distribution throughout the churches
of Constantinople, Constantine's capital. Constantine himself was NOT A
CHRISTIAN!
Constantine was the Head of the Christian Church. That's why he was making
the Bishops find a common ground. They didn't. Not for some time afterwards.
Some still don't agree.
Post by Religion is a Lie
The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?
Jesus was a real person.
Post by Religion is a Lie
I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".
You seem to be deriding Catholicism, not Christianity. The Church of Jesus
was headed by his own brother, James and by his disciple Peter. Now, if
Jesus never existed, according to you, how could anything in the Gospels be
true? They would be complete fiction, as you said. Are you drunk or on
drugs?

Saint
Blast Femur
2003-11-27 06:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by angelicusrex
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc.
Can you prove this? There is a lot of archaelogical evidence that
Christianity was well established in the 1st Century A.D. Writers
mention them, records of Rome mention them, there are artifacts that
are Christian.
Cites please. Prove this.
Post by angelicusrex
Post by Religion is a Lie
The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD -
Pauline doctrine is not the only mention of Jesus.
Right, he is mentioned throughout the NT. But try to find him in the
real world...
Post by angelicusrex
Post by Religion is a Lie
it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed
in the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!
But there is evidence. As I said.
Once again, cites please. I cannot accept your assertion as is.

<snip>
--
Blast Femur

______________

"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes
talking to people and guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"

-Paul Provenza
Christians Kill
2003-11-28 07:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?

-
Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no
longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent
allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to
make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place
that the churches in all these centuries have made it.
--Bertrand Russell
Dr. Jason Gastrich
2003-11-28 07:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
The gospels. Christmas. Josephus. The miracles I've done in His name.
The Holy Spirit He gave me that lives within me. The inerrant Word of God.

Sincerely,
Jason Gastrich
--
The Awesome, Saving Gospel of God
http://gospel.jcsm.org
Are you saved? Read the gospel and make sure!
Ron Baker
2003-11-28 14:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
The gospels. Christmas. Josephus. The miracles I've done in His name.
The Holy Spirit He gave me that lives within me. The inerrant Word of God.
Interesting.

What evidence is Flavius Josephus?

What miracles have you done in His name?

Is every word in the bible literally true?
Don Kresch
2003-11-28 16:01:37 UTC
Permalink
In alt.atheism on Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:26:29 GMT, "Dr. Jason Gastrich"
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
The gospels.
Not evidence.
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
Christmas.
Not evidence.
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
Josephus.
Not evidence.
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
The miracles I've done in His name.
No such thing.
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
The Holy Spirit He gave me that lives within me.
No such thing.
Post by Dr. Jason Gastrich
The inerrant Word of God.
No such thing.

Well, that about wraps up your supposed evidence.


Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

Roger Pearse
2003-11-28 14:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
Usenet contains little else.
How many times have we killed you?
Post by Christians Kill
Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no
longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent
allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to
make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place
that the churches in all these centuries have made it.
--Bertrand Russell
Now known to have been a sleazeball of the first water who tormented
his family for amusement.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Figinn
2003-11-28 15:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
Such tiresome arguments. How about you give me any evidence that anyone is
a real person? How can you prove to me that you're not a figment of my
imagination ... a mental delusion created by my mind merely to amuse myself?

And at this point, it doesn't really matter if Jesus of Nazareth actually
ever lived. If he did exist, it doesn't really matter what he did or what
he said, whether his mama was a virgin, whether he ever married, whether he
was crucified and whether he was resurrected.

People believe in such things. Perceived reality becomes subjective reality
which many times becomes actual reality. If some Christian believes in
Jesus and that makes them want to be a "better" person then Jesus is real
for them and their reality is manifested in their interactions with others.
If some Christian believes in Jesus and that makes them act like an asshole,
well it has the same effect.

So why do we all insist on nitpicking details? Leave them alone ... you're
clearly not adding anything of substance to anyone's reality ... or is it
you just like to whine and moan about how the big, bad Christians ruin
everything for you? They don't ruin everything for me. I don't have to
agree with someone in order to tolerate their belief systems. Most
Christians I know are actually pretty nice folks ... they just believe in
different things than I do.

Figinn
Uncle Davey
2003-11-28 15:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Figinn
Post by Christians Kill
Post by angelicusrex
Jesus was a real person.
Where is the evidence for your claim?
Such tiresome arguments. How about you give me any evidence that anyone is
a real person? How can you prove to me that you're not a figment of my
imagination ... a mental delusion created by my mind merely to amuse myself?
And at this point, it doesn't really matter if Jesus of Nazareth actually
ever lived. If he did exist, it doesn't really matter what he did or what
he said, whether his mama was a virgin, whether he ever married, whether he
was crucified and whether he was resurrected.
People believe in such things. Perceived reality becomes subjective reality
which many times becomes actual reality. If some Christian believes in
Jesus and that makes them want to be a "better" person then Jesus is real
for them and their reality is manifested in their interactions with others.
If some Christian believes in Jesus and that makes them act like an asshole,
well it has the same effect.
So why do we all insist on nitpicking details? Leave them alone ... you're
clearly not adding anything of substance to anyone's reality ... or is it
you just like to whine and moan about how the big, bad Christians ruin
everything for you? They don't ruin everything for me. I don't have to
agree with someone in order to tolerate their belief systems. Most
Christians I know are actually pretty nice folks ... they just believe in
different things than I do.
Figinn
It's very nice to be tolerated, but it's still my duty to tell you that
Christ is not about making us good people, he is about making us forgiven
people.

I for one will never be good no matter how hard I try, until I follow in my
Lord's resurrection.

Uncle Davey
Blast Femur
2003-11-27 05:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Religion is a Lie
The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?
http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen

Jesus seems to have, like the humanity he mythologically represents,
evolved through time. He is but a combination, stolen and mixed from
previous myths throughout history.

Through the advent of brainwashing, mind manipulation by the
administration of the concept of eternal afterlife vs. eternal horrific
punishment, and despite the advancement of science today, he still
commands a great portion of the minds of the fearful, regardless of their
presentday intellect.

Amazing, isn't it?
--
Blast Femur

______________

"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes
talking to people and guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"

-Paul Provenza
duke
2003-11-27 13:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc. The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD - it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed in
the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!
Is there any reason that anyone should believe you? It's easy to say, but why
would anyone care about your mistakes?
Post by Religion is a Lie
The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?
God became man in the person of Jesus Christ.
Post by Religion is a Lie
I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".
Like what?
turk
2003-11-27 16:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Religion is a Lie
Jesus never existed. Christianity is based on a work of fiction -
altered, expanded, corrupted, etc. The Paulinian description of the
spread of Christianity in the 1st cent. AD. was written c. 140 AD - it
is complete fiction. There is no evidence that Christianity existed in
the 1st cent AD - because it didn't!
Is there any reason that anyone should believe you? It's easy to say, but why
would anyone care about your mistakes?
Post by Religion is a Lie
The big question, the question in my mind, is - who was the author who
invented the character Jesus?
God became man in the person of Jesus Christ.
This is your evidence? Superman became man in the person of Clark Kent.
Batman became man in the person of Bruce Wayne. Captain Marvel became man
in the person of Billy Batson. I know these things to be real fact since my
holy comic books tell me so.
Post by duke
Post by Religion is a Lie
I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".
Like what?
The Rapture, anti-abortion groups and their "God opposes abortion" claims,
prayer in public (Matthew 6:5 clearly calls this hypocritical), the worship
of false icons (see Judge Roy Moore and Alabama), just off the top of my
head...

turk
duke
2003-11-27 22:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by turk
Post by duke
Post by Religion is a Lie
I, personally, have no complaints about the moral teachings of those
parts of the gospel story that I think were in the original - but I do
object, most strongly, to much of the later additional material,
insertions, corruptions, etc., that other hands managed to get accepted
as "inspired".
Like what?
The Rapture, anti-abortion groups and their "God opposes abortion" claims,
Abortion and abortionists are on a quick trip to the hellhole.
Post by turk
prayer in public (Matthew 6:5 clearly calls this hypocritical),
Matthew 6
Prayer
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray
standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell
you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

Sorry, praying in public is not at all hypocritical. Praying to impress people
rather than God is hypocritical.
Post by turk
the worship
of false icons (see Judge Roy Moore and Alabama),
Nobody worshipped Roy's rock.

What in the world are you talking about?
Post by turk
just off the top of my head...
turk
I suggest you put it back in your pocket.
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