Countless Times, You are a Wiccan If,

[ren]

In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"

By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.

So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.

Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.

Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.

Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.

This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

[Aine]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"<

Your "Mother of Wicca" should kick your butt into next Tuesday.
(Courtesy of Chris Rock.."Everybody Hates Chris)

[Evergreen the Magician]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"

There are no witches in Wicca. Witches are real magicians
and in Wicca you only have people playing the role of
witches.

"Our Mother of Wicca"? Give me a _break_!

Wicca was created in the 1950's by amateur scholars who
knew no magick at all.

Post by ren
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.

So sex was as aspect of the artificial psuedo-religion he
created, which includes imaginary gods and godesses.

Post by ren
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.

No kidding. That's what defines the members of any religion.

Post by ren
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.

Wicca is not a religion. It is a role-playing social club.

And that's what you are doing right now: Playing the role.

And pretending to speak for Wicca, which you do not.

You don't even have a coven.

Worshiping Nature? Nonsense. Real nature worshippers do
not do business with corporations that are trashing Nature.
And Wiccans do.

Post by ren
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.

Wiccans perform artificial, magickally inert rituals that don't
do anything but provide an evening's entertainment.

There are no real magicians among the Wicca. They are dressup witches.

Post by ren
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

What utter drivel.

Sid

[SpellofIsis19]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

[Aine]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

Ren, you forgot Earth!  : )- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you your
errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility for it
yourself.

[SpellofIsis19]

Post by Aine

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

Ren, you forgot Earth!  : )- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you your
errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility for it
yourself.

Aine,

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.
Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

[Aine]

Post by Aine

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

Ren, you forgot Earth!  : )- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you your
errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility for it
yourself.

Aine,
We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor.  Relax.
Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment.  For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

No harassment. Replies of opinions and truths.
Possibly you should try a moderated group your hand and socks are not
banned from.
What us immature is a man rens/your age still doing socks and playing
head games online.

[ren]

Post by Aine
No harassment. Replies of opinions and truths.
Possibly you should try a moderated group your hand and socks are not
banned from.
What us immature is a man rens/your age still doing socks and playing
head games online.

Have you been ransacking the mini-bar again, Aine?

[Aine]

Post by Aine

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

Ren, you forgot Earth!  : )- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you your
errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility for it
yourself.

Aine,
We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor.  Relax.
Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment.  For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of dying
back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I say you
energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..ya post
in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you already have
problems with.

[sâr`châsm]

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

Post by Aine
That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to provide
shadows.

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who they pass
themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether or not you are
a sock. Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do you
know how old someone posting here is?

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?

[Aine]

Post by sâr`châsm

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

Post by Aine
That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to provide
shadows.<

Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Post by sâr`châsm

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who they pass
themselves off to be.  That can seem like harassment whether or not you are
a sock.<

No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

 Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do you
know how old someone posting here is?

I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as my
personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

Post by sâr`châsm

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<

No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Post by sâr`châsm

Say what you will, but 'jealousy' has nothing to do with any of the
above possibly trolling.

It does because they told me it does.<

Liar.

Post by sâr`châsm

You are the one who constantly makes everything about jealousy when it
comes to me. Be it them, about you or me, about smelly isis.

If you're not jealous, then why call my friend 'smelly'?<

I have told you tens of times. You refuse to hear what I am saying
and
make it into what you want.
First post, I said Isis smelled of mildew and rot. Like death.
Second,
third, etc, I said the same..I do not hang around or scout energy
that
comes across as a smell to me in that manner.

She speaks like a sock aside from the other if that is not enough for
you to get about Isis. A sock voice, in my head is flat tone, child
like, like a simple puppet.
Whomever the puppeteer is, has some nasty issues/energy that comes
through with the gig as Isis.

Post by sâr`châsm
She has shown
no contempt for you only concern for you.<

I would not know, nor do I care. If I hit on an Isis post I tend to
speed read, scan, and get out. Cannot say I touch much on details. I
do not have to like posters. I do not have to like people who show
concern for me. Demonic spirits and the Grim Reaper show concern just
as easily as light workworkers. Isis should be concerned with "it's"
own energy issues.

Post by sâr`châsm

I am more concerned about your obsession of 'jealousy' then thinking
the above 3 named are trolling under an alias of what we normally know
them by.

You yourself said that you and I were being targeted by trolls here.
Just you and I. Why?<

Ask yourself. You took a left with the cheat sheet and I took a
right,
if I ever even left the gate with you on this one.

Post by sâr`châsm
Zayton, Sar, Joe, Lady, Beorc and many others also fight trolls. Why
aren't they targeted?<

Not about fighting trolls. Not about being charlatans. Not even about
magick. Not about Wicca or religion. Would look pretty darn obvious
if
it was aimed at just you and me. Tho Sar was in it at the beginning.
Personal vendetta.

[ren]

Aine, Isis is a kind woman and she has shown leniency toward you.

You have done nothing but bite at her heals just because she calls me
friend.

[SpellofIsis19]

Post by ren
Aine, Isis is a kind woman and she has shown leniency toward you.
You have done nothing but bite at her heals just because she calls me
friend.

Thank you for the nice words, Ren. I'm sure in time Aine will realize
that I'm not a threat to her and that I never was before.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren
Aine, Isis is a kind woman and she has shown leniency toward you.
You have done nothing but bite at her heals just because she calls
me friend.
Thank you for the nice words, Ren. I'm sure in time Aine will realize
that I'm not a threat to her and that I never was before.

Good diversion ... is there something perceived as a "threat" in my replies
to you?

[Aine]

Aine, Isis is a kind woman and she has shown leniency toward you.<

Wow, you really this stupid?

You have done nothing but bite at her heals just because she calls me
friend.<

Yes, I guess you are and arrogant to boot.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by Aine

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to
provide shadows.<
Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Yeah, since light shadows would be somewhat of a misnomer.

Post by Aine

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who
they pass themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether
or not you are a sock.<
No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

You can smell her voice? Maybe a breathmint would suffice.

Post by Aine
Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do
you know how old someone posting here is?
I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as
my personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.

Or, it's her perception from reading your posts with a certain bias?

Post by Aine
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

What, an opinion can be wrong?!?!? When did this happen?

Post by Aine

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<
No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Okay ... ever wondered what makes her reluctant to respond to my replies to
her?

Post by Aine

Say what you will, but 'jealousy' has nothing to do with any of the
above possibly trolling.

It does because they told me it does.<

Liar.

Post by Aine

You are the one who constantly makes everything about jealousy when it
comes to me. Be it them, about you or me, about smelly isis.

If you're not jealous, then why call my friend 'smelly'?<

I have told you tens of times. You refuse to hear what I am saying
and
make it into what you want.
First post, I said Isis smelled of mildew and rot. Like death.
Second,
third, etc, I said the same..I do not hang around or scout energy
that
comes across as a smell to me in that manner.

She speaks like a sock aside from the other if that is not enough for
you to get about Isis. A sock voice, in my head is flat tone, child
like, like a simple puppet.
Whomever the puppeteer is, has some nasty issues/energy that comes
through with the gig as Isis.

Post by Aine
She has shown
no contempt for you only concern for you.<

I would not know, nor do I care. If I hit on an Isis post I tend to
speed read, scan, and get out. Cannot say I touch much on details. I
do not have to like posters. I do not have to like people who show
concern for me. Demonic spirits and the Grim Reaper show concern just
as easily as light workworkers. Isis should be concerned with "it's"
own energy issues.

Post by Aine

I am more concerned about your obsession of 'jealousy' then thinking
the above 3 named are trolling under an alias of what we normally know
them by.

You yourself said that you and I were being targeted by trolls here.
Just you and I. Why?<

Ask yourself. You took a left with the cheat sheet and I took a
right, if I ever even left the gate with you on this one.

Post by Aine
Zayton, Sar, Joe, Lady, Beorc and many others also fight trolls. Why
aren't they targeted?<

Not about fighting trolls. Not about being charlatans. Not even about
magick. Not about Wicca or religion. Would look pretty darn obvious
if it was aimed at just you and me. Tho Sar was in it at the beginning.
Personal vendetta.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to
provide shadows.<
Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Yeah, since light shadows would be somewhat of a misnomer.

Post by Aine

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who
they pass themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether
or not you are a sock.<
No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

You can smell her voice? Maybe a breathmint would suffice.

Post by Aine
Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do
you know how old someone posting here is?
I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as
my personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.

Or, it's her perception from reading your posts with a certain bias?

Post by Aine
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

What, an opinion can be wrong?!?!? When did this happen?

Post by Aine

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<
No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Okay ... ever wondered what makes her reluctant to respond to my replies to
her?

Post by Aine

Say what you will, but 'jealousy' has nothing to do with any of the
above possibly trolling.

It does because they told me it does.<

Liar.

Post by Aine

You are the one who constantly makes everything about jealousy when it
comes to me. Be it them, about you or me, about smelly isis.

If you're not jealous, then why call my friend 'smelly'?<

I have told you tens of times. You refuse to hear what I am saying
and
make it into what you want.
First post, I said Isis smelled of mildew and rot. Like death.
Second,
third, etc, I said the same..I do not hang around or scout energy
that
comes across as a smell to me in that manner.
She speaks like a sock aside from the other if that is not enough for
you to get about Isis. A sock voice, in my head is flat tone, child
like, like a simple puppet.
Whomever the puppeteer is, has some nasty issues/energy that comes
through with the gig as Isis.

Post by Aine
She has shown
no contempt for you only concern for you.<

I would not know, nor do I care. If I hit on an Isis post I tend to
speed read, scan, and get out. Cannot say I touch much on details. I
do not have to like posters. I do not have to like people who show
concern for me. Demonic spirits and the Grim Reaper show concern just
as easily as light workworkers. Isis should be concerned with "it's"
own energy issues.

Post by Aine

I am more concerned about your obsession of 'jealousy' then thinking
the above 3 named are trolling under an alias of what we normally know
them by.

You yourself said that you and I were being targeted by trolls here.
Just you and I. Why?<

Ask yourself. You took a left with the cheat sheet and I took a
right, if I ever even left the gate with you on this one.

Post by Aine
Zayton, Sar, Joe, Lady, Beorc and many others also fight trolls. Why
aren't they targeted?<

Not about fighting trolls. Not about being charlatans. Not even about
magick. Not about Wicca or religion. Would look pretty darn obvious
if it was aimed at just you and me. Tho Sar was in it at the beginning.
Personal vendetta.

Ugh.. I can't tell who is writing what most of the time with your long
posts as your lines get all mixed up and it looks like you are mouthing
Aines words and energy.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by Aine

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.
Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to
provide shadows.<

Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Yeah, since light shadows would be somewhat of a misnomer.

Post by Aine
Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who
they pass themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether
or not you are a sock.<

No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

Post by sâr`châsm
You can smell her voice? Maybe a breathmint would suffice.
Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do
you know how old someone posting here is?

Post by Aine
I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as
my personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.

Or, it's her perception from reading your posts with a certain bias?

Post by Aine
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

What, an opinion can be wrong?!?!? When did this happen?

Post by Aine

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.
There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<

No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Okay ... ever wondered what makes her reluctant to respond to my replies
to her?

Post by Aine

Say what you will, but 'jealousy' has nothing to do with any of the
above possibly trolling.

It does because they told me it does.<

Liar.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

You are the one who constantly makes everything about jealousy when it
comes to me. Be it them, about you or me, about smelly isis.

If you're not jealous, then why call my friend 'smelly'?<

I have told you tens of times. You refuse to hear what I am saying
and
make it into what you want.
First post, I said Isis smelled of mildew and rot. Like death.
Second,
third, etc, I said the same..I do not hang around or scout energy
that
comes across as a smell to me in that manner.
She speaks like a sock aside from the other if that is not enough for
you to get about Isis. A sock voice, in my head is flat tone, child
like, like a simple puppet.
Whomever the puppeteer is, has some nasty issues/energy that comes
through with the gig as Isis.

Post by Aine
She has shown
no contempt for you only concern for you.<

I would not know, nor do I care. If I hit on an Isis post I tend to
speed read, scan, and get out. Cannot say I touch much on details. I
do not have to like posters. I do not have to like people who show
concern for me. Demonic spirits and the Grim Reaper show concern just
as easily as light workworkers. Isis should be concerned with "it's"
own energy issues.

Post by Aine

I am more concerned about your obsession of 'jealousy' then thinking
the above 3 named are trolling under an alias of what we normally know
them by.

You yourself said that you and I were being targeted by trolls here.
Just you and I. Why?<

Ask yourself. You took a left with the cheat sheet and I took a
right, if I ever even left the gate with you on this one.

Post by Aine
Zayton, Sar, Joe, Lady, Beorc and many others also fight trolls. Why
aren't they targeted?<

Not about fighting trolls. Not about being charlatans. Not even about
magick. Not about Wicca or religion. Would look pretty darn obvious
if it was aimed at just you and me. Tho Sar was in it at the beginning.
Personal vendetta.

Ugh.. I can't tell who is writing what most of the time with your long
posts as your lines get all mixed up

Long posts are usually the result of more than one poster responding,
separated by carets, ( ">"). It may be that Thunderbird separates by colors
but either way, most can usually tell the pattern of back and forth replies
from one another.

Post by Aine
and it looks like you are mouthing Aines words and energy.

I don't mouth the words of others unless I quote them, (either by
attribution and caret separators or, by quote marks), and I never mimic the
"energy" of another. Do you think the latter is possible?

[hy]

sâr`châsm wrote:

Hey!
The carats/colors do not work when you and Aine post to each other. Just
with you two, no one else.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine
and it looks like you are mouthing Aines words and energy.

I don't mouth the words of others unless I quote them, (either by
attribution and caret separators or, by quote marks), and I never mimic the
"energy" of another. Do you think the latter is possible?

I don't think you sound like each other.

However, I think that people can mimic others energy. I also think that
people take on the energy of others when they work with one another or
talk with each other, etc.

I can't say that I have tried to see if anyone was a sock here, except
for one person who I liked and in the end got suspicious of because of
others telling me she was a sock (Solei?) I liked her, and I wished that
I would have treated her better - like I liked her - rather than through
suspicion.


Also, I think if we see something in side of another person that reminds
us of another (especially if they are friends) we sort of go through
their energy to the other.

We also replicate others in us or take parts of them into ourselves.

Besides, I have talked to people here that have scared me because I felt
that the energy was so close or the thoughts so close to my own that I
felt like I was being duped because it was too scary to believe in
synchronicity on such extreme levels. However, I got over that. I
understand it more now and can trust in it more.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy
Hey!
The carats/colors do not work when you and Aine post to each other. Just
with you two, no one else.

She posts through google, I do not. google doesn't play well with some
other newsreaders.

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine
and it looks like you are mouthing Aines words and energy.

I don't mouth the words of others unless I quote them, (either by
attribution and caret separators or, by quote marks), and I never mimic
the "energy" of another. Do you think the latter is possible?

I don't think you sound like each other.

" ... mouthing Aines words and energy" made it read like you did.

Post by hy
However, I think that people can mimic others energy. I also think that
people take on the energy of others when they work with one another or
talk with each other, etc.

This would greatly depend upon what you mean by "energy" in that instance.
It likely isn't what I meant so, you get to decide whether or not you want
to describe it as you attempt a few paragraphs down.

Post by hy
I can't say that I have tried to see if anyone was a sock here, except for
one person who I liked and in the end got suspicious of because of others
telling me she was a sock (Solei?) I liked her, and I wished that I would
have treated her better - like I liked her - rather than through
suspicion.

Well, that poster "JAC" was a sock of another poster, (it's over and done
and this isn't a rehash so, no names).

Post by hy
Also, I think if we see something in side of another person that reminds
us of another (especially if they are friends) we sort of go through their
energy to the other.

While patterns of others can be similar, (or, 'spoofed'), that wasn't what
I'd mean by "energy". There can be general similarities between people but,
the specific detailed patterns will vary enough to distinguish between them,
(or, socks).

Post by hy
We also replicate others in us or take parts of them into ourselves.

We do? I don't do that so, that's not a "we".

Post by hy
Besides, I have talked to people here that have scared me because I felt
that the energy was so close or the thoughts so close to my own that I
felt like I was being duped because it was too scary to believe in
synchronicity on such extreme levels.

Why did that make you fearful?

Post by hy
However, I got over that. I understand it more now and can trust in it
more.

What do you understand about it?

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm
" ... mouthing Aines words and energy" made it read like you did.

Sorry, I meant that it looked like you wrote her comments, since they
didn't have a carot, color or line beside her comments on the last half
of your post.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
However, I think that people can mimic others energy. I also think that
people take on the energy of others when they work with one another or
talk with each other, etc.

This would greatly depend upon what you mean by "energy" in that instance.
It likely isn't what I meant so, you get to decide whether or not you want
to describe it as you attempt a few paragraphs down.

What I mean by energy I guess is how I perceive it. I haven't really
ever tried to explain that before and never thought the need to.
However, I can see your point now.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I can't say that I have tried to see if anyone was a sock here, except for
one person who I liked and in the end got suspicious of because of others
telling me she was a sock (Solei?) I liked her, and I wished that I would
have treated her better - like I liked her - rather than through
suspicion.

Well, that poster "JAC" was a sock of another poster, (it's over and done
and this isn't a rehash so, no names).

I didn't know that. I liked JAC. I acted sort of dumb with him, and he
could be cranky, but I liked him.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
Also, I think if we see something in side of another person that reminds
us of another (especially if they are friends) we sort of go through their
energy to the other.

While patterns of others can be similar, (or, 'spoofed'), that wasn't what
I'd mean by "energy". There can be general similarities between people but,
the specific detailed patterns will vary enough to distinguish between them,
(or, socks).

I didn't mean spoofed.

Some people to me, feel the same, they have similar patterns to me. I
feel/sense patterns different than what I express as energy or thoughts.
These are all different to me. For instance, I may feel someone think
about me or write to me, but that is not the same "pattern" or "energy"
as them "just being". Rituals also sometimes changes how they feel or
vibrate or look etc.

I guess why I mentioned some of the above is that there are certain
people on here that I like because they do post similar and they do post
the way I like (even if they post some things I do not like). So they
can seem similar to other people. Maybe they are the same people, but I
do not want to live my life worrying about those issues.

It is true, I come back for the community that I used to see in arw, and
find it on occasion. I like that. I liked the closeness. I do not want
to be duped by socks. But I can't spend time on people long enough to
invest in socks or even really good people. So I have to enjoy people
for who they and as they are as they place themselves in front of me.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
We also replicate others in us or take parts of them into ourselves.

We do? I don't do that so, that's not a "we".

Okay, maybe not you. But there was a time when even you enjoyed sort of
trying to mess with my mind about posters. And it worked. At that time,
you were also feeling different than you are now, in a confusing
spoofing sort of way.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
Besides, I have talked to people here that have scared me because I felt
that the energy was so close or the thoughts so close to my own that I
felt like I was being duped because it was too scary to believe in
synchronicity on such extreme levels.

Why did that make you fearful?

Probably because when I came to arw I had a rather Kassandra type
complex. I was not used to being believed, I was not used to sharing
ideas I thought were make believe. I didn't understand what was make
believe and what could be possible. I wanted to believe, but also even
if I have evidence staring at me, showing me some grand possibility and
my heart wants to believe, I can still have troubles believing. I am
both a sceptic and a romantic at heart.

I believed more in others than my self and therefore, to have someone
mimick back to me something I felt close to, was scary.. because it
meant I had to believe in them believing in me or sharing something I
wasn't sure about believing in yet.

I believe both less and more now. Less in others, more in myself, but I
think in a good way. I still believe in others greatly.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
However, I got over that. I understand it more now and can trust in it
more.

What do you understand about it?

To have faith that things are good in such beautiful and connecting
ways, and this tells me something sometimes, and validates in ways that
I had to ask for before, and now I am shown and do not need to discuss
with others any more.

I understand that I am thankful.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
She posts through google, I do not. google doesn't play well with some
other newsreaders.

Post by Aine
and it looks like you are mouthing Aines words and energy.

Sorry, I meant that it looked like you wrote her comments, since they
didn't have a carot, color or line beside her comments on the last half of
your post.

The caret separators were there when the posts were sent, (they showed in my
newsreader but, apparently Thunderbird removes them). Not sure about how
Thunderbird sorts by colors.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

Post by hy
However, I think that people can mimic others energy. I also think that
people take on the energy of others when they work with one another or
talk with each other, etc.

This would greatly depend upon what you mean by "energy" in that
instance. It likely isn't what I meant so, you get to decide whether or
not you want to describe it as you attempt a few paragraphs down.

What I mean by energy I guess is how I perceive it. I haven't really ever
tried to explain that before and never thought the need to. However, I can
see your point now.

If you were to try to describe it, (if nothing else, to gain a better
understanding of it yourself, not for others), how would you?

Post by sâr`châsm
[...]

Post by Aine

Post by hy
Also, I think if we see something in side of another person that reminds
us of another (especially if they are friends) we sort of go through
their energy to the other.

While patterns of others can be similar, (or, 'spoofed'), that wasn't
what I'd mean by "energy". There can be general similarities between
people but, the specific detailed patterns will vary enough to
distinguish between them, (or, socks).

I didn't mean spoofed.

I know, I added that as a potentiality of sockpuppeting.

Post by sâr`châsm
Some people to me, feel the same, they have similar patterns to me. I
feel/sense patterns different than what I express as energy or thoughts.
These are all different to me. For instance, I may feel someone think
about me or write to me, but that is not the same "pattern" or "energy" as
them "just being". Rituals also sometimes changes how they feel or vibrate
or look etc.
I guess why I mentioned some of the above is that there are certain people
on here that I like because they do post similar and they do post the way
I like (even if they post some things I do not like). So they can seem
similar to other people. Maybe they are the same people, but I do not want
to live my life worrying about those issues.

It's certainly possible, (and much easier), to view all 'nyms as separate
people instead of there being a few socks and a few actually separate
posters.

Post by sâr`châsm
It is true, I come back for the community that I used to see in arw, and
find it on occasion. I like that. I liked the closeness. I do not want to
be duped by socks. But I can't spend time on people long enough to invest
in socks or even really good people. So I have to enjoy people for who
they and as they are as they place themselves in front of me.

Taking posters at 'face value' is one way of dealing with all the gaming
that goes on around here, (although some aren't gaming, that gets lost in
the general haze).

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

Post by hy
We also replicate others in us or take parts of them into ourselves.

We do? I don't do that so, that's not a "we".

Okay, maybe not you. But there was a time when even you enjoyed sort of
trying to mess with my mind about posters. And it worked.

I don't recall trying to mess with your head about others, however, I
generally am not messing with heads when I post specific lines of reasoning
regarding some posters or, what they post.

Post by sâr`châsm
At that time, you were also feeling different than you are now, in a
confusing spoofing sort of way.

Au contraire, I've always been *me*, no matter what 'nym was used, (since
'nym changes were never intended to 'conceal' the form and manner of my
posts - those come through quite clearly now as they did back then ... as
I'm informed of).

Post by sâr`châsm
[...]

Post by Aine
Why did that make you fearful?

Probably because when I came to arw I had a rather Kassandra type complex.
I was not used to being believed, I was not used to sharing ideas I
thought were make believe. I didn't understand what was make believe and
what could be possible. I wanted to believe, but also even if I have
evidence staring at me, showing me some grand possibility and my heart
wants to believe, I can still have troubles believing. I am both a sceptic
and a romantic at heart.

Isn't such a 'Cassandra Complex' still somewhat in effect with your
'flashforward' post?

Post by sâr`châsm
I believed more in others than my self and therefore, to have someone
mimick back to me something I felt close to, was scary.. because it meant
I had to believe in them believing in me or sharing something I wasn't
sure about believing in yet.

A matter self-confidence, to be resolved here, (of all places)?

Post by sâr`châsm
I believe both less and more now. Less in others, more in myself, but I
think in a good way. I still believe in others greatly.

It's not only good to question your own assumptions but, to question those
of others.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by Aine

Post by hy
However, I got over that. I understand it more now and can trust in it
more.

What do you understand about it?

To have faith that things are good in such beautiful and connecting ways,
and this tells me something sometimes, and validates in ways that I had to
ask for before, and now I am shown and do not need to discuss with others
any more.
I understand that I am thankful.

"Faith" directly implies a belief which may or, may not be so, however, if
that's the way things are perceived, who can validly tell you what to see
with your eyes?

[Aine]

Post by Aine

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to
provide shadows.<
Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Yeah, since light shadows would be somewhat of a misnomer.<

hehe True that.

Post by Aine

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who
they pass themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether
or not you are a sock.<
No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

You can smell her voice?  Maybe a breathmint would suffice.<

No, I hear her voice as it reads from the post. Sounds fake.

Post by Aine
Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do
you know how old someone posting here is?
I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as
my personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.

Or, it's her perception from reading your posts with a certain bias?<

Passive/aggressive.. You know the sugar mixed in with what 'they'
perceive as a jab. Never works with me, besides her photo if it is
real puts her close to my age.
So, I am not sure what she thinks she is accomplishing. Im good. Maybe
she should try to be.

Post by Aine
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

What, an opinion can be wrong?!?!?  When did this happen?<

Rare...not. ;)

Post by Aine

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<
No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Okay ... ever wondered what makes her reluctant to respond to my replies to
her?<

Very noticeable. She seems to have a GPS to ren and aine only.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by Aine

Ren, you forgot Earth! : )

That is really sad when you have to have your sock tell you
your errors online rather then admit it and take responsibility
for it yourself.

We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor. Relax.

Relax, this is arw where heavy conversation mixes in with light to
provide shadows.<
Dark Shadows..There it is again.

Yeah, since light shadows would be somewhat of a misnomer.<

hehe True that.
Although "hy" pointed out that there is such a thing as a "light shadow", I
had qualified my statement with 'somewhat'. heh

Post by Aine

Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment. For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

She says that you 'smell' like a sockpuppet, someone who isn't who
they pass themselves off to be. That can seem like harassment whether
or not you are a sock.<
No, she sounds like a sock in my psychic zone. How "her" voice reads
from "her" words.

You can smell her voice? Maybe a breathmint would suffice.<
No, I hear her voice as it reads from the post. Sounds fake.

She could be a separate person; how would she go about convincing others of
that?

Post by Aine
Age has very little impact on sockpuppetry, however, how do
you know how old someone posting here is?
I posted my age not long ago but most of what "she" perceives as
my personal life she gets from psychic abilities? I dunno. She is wrong.

Or, it's her perception from reading your posts with a certain bias?<
Passive/aggressive.. You know the sugar mixed in with what 'they'
perceive as a jab.

You do know they could say that runs both ways? heh

Never works with me, besides her photo if it is real puts
her close to my age.

There's a picture?

So, I am not sure what she thinks she is accomplishing. Im
good. Maybe she should try to be.

On the surface, the bulk of her posts of been supportive of "ren's", which
is where some suspicion enters in for some.

Post by Aine
Even if ren discusses me with her, which is weird, she is
still..wrong.

What, an opinion can be wrong?!?!? When did this happen?<
Rare...not. ;)

My sarcasm preceded me.

Post by Aine

Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of
dying back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I
say you energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..
ya post in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you
already have problems with.

There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?<
No..let me re-post what I have been saying since her first thread here
about what 'her' energy smells and feels like to me.

Okay ... ever wondered what makes her reluctant to respond to my replies to
her?<
Very noticeable. She seems to have a GPS to ren and aine only.

In another 'cosmic coincidence', so does sidiot. No doubt that's just
happenstance.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm
Although "hy" pointed out that there is such a thing as a "light shadow", I
had qualified my statement with 'somewhat'. heh

Hey, why the "" around my name? And.. why the missing vowels in the
posters name when quoted by you?

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
Although "hy" pointed out that there is such a thing as a "light shadow",
I had qualified my statement with 'somewhat'. heh

Hey, why the "" around my name?

My newsreader automatically adds quote marks around a poster's 'nym. I've
been continuing that convention for a long time now.

Post by hy
And.. why the missing vowels in the posters name when quoted by you?

That only happens occasionally and usually when "ren" or, "aine" replies to
one of my posts, (but not every time).

[ren]

My newsreader automatically adds quote marks around a poster's 'nym.  I've
been continuing that convention for a long time now.

You're "Evergreen"?

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
My newsreader automatically adds quote marks around a
poster's 'nym. I've been continuing that convention for a long
time now.
You're "Evergreen"?

Hardly. The sidiot troll uses some sort of cobbled-together newsreader
which allows him to pretend to 'killfile' those he replies to nonetheless.
My newsreader is merely the default option of the ISP I'm using at a given
time. It serves minimally well, although is glitchy in combination with
google's. You use google, which renders my 'nym as "s r`ch sm" due to some
characters not being plain text or, maybe because you're "evergreen"?

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm
characters not being plain text or, maybe because you're "evergreen"?

I doubt that. I also have German and Japanese fonts installed. It
would be easy to see if I were pretending to be another as certain
characters do not display correctly in my browser and yours.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren

Post by sâr`châsm
You use google, which renders my 'nym as "s r`ch sm" due to
some characters not being plain text or, maybe because you're
"evergreen"?

I doubt that. I also have German and Japanese fonts installed. It
would be easy to see if I were pretending to be another as certain
characters do not display correctly in my browser and yours.

This has more to do with whether either of us have reader options set to
HTML or plain text than who is socking as sidiot.

[ren]

How about visiting her website.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren
How about visiting her website.

She hasn't posted a URL invitation to do so.

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by ren
How about visiting her website.

She hasn't posted a URL invitation to do so.

You don't need an invitation to visit someone's website. Just follow
the link on my website.

I continually list it in my profile. Isis is real if only all of you
would just check.

Really Watson. This is basic empiricism.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by ren
How about visiting her website.

She hasn't posted a URL invitation to do so.
You don't need an invitation to visit someone's website. Just
follow the link on my website.
I continually list it in my profile. Isis is real if only all of you
would just check.
Really Watson. This is basic empiricism.

Here's the thing, Holmes; going to a website usually logs the IP of the
visitor. While this normally isn't a huge problem in and of itself, it can
lead to other problematic eventualities. As to whether or not "Isis" is a
real person, does it matter in the final analysis? Maybe it does for some
if they've realized that "SpellofIsis" nominally refers to 'love spells'.
That isn't a problem for me, is it one for you?

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm
There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?

Aine knows that Isis is not a sock. Aine is being a jealous hateful
ol'biddy.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren
Aine knows that Isis is not a sock. Aine is being a jealous
hateful ol'biddy.

That's not the context her posts have taken. They've indicated socking is
involved.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by ren
Aine knows that Isis is not a sock. Aine is being a jealous
hateful ol'biddy.

That's not the context her posts have taken. They've indicated socking is
involved.

Well, I enjoy the sweetness of Isis Not everything has to be a sour,
grumpy, sock.

And there is such a thing as light shadows :P

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by ren
Aine knows that Isis is not a sock. Aine is being a jealous
hateful ol'biddy.

That's not the context her posts have taken. They've indicated socking is
involved.
Well, I enjoy the sweetness of Isis. Not everything has to be a sour,
grumpy, sock.

True, yet when someone indicates another has the 'smell' of a sock, they
don't always mean a literally stinky one.

Post by sâr`châsm
And there is such a thing as light shadows :P

That's true too, however, a "light shadow" wouldn't conceal too much.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm
That's true too, however, a "light shadow" wouldn't conceal too much.

How about if you turn that around to read a "light shadow" (not a light
grey shadow but shadowing the light). It can conceal much, even from
ourselves.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

... a "light shadow" wouldn't conceal too much.

How about if you turn that around to read a "light shadow" (not a light
grey shadow but shadowing the light). It can conceal much, even from
ourselves.

If that gets turned around, it's possible to be blinded by the 'light'.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

... a "light shadow" wouldn't conceal too much.

How about if you turn that around to read a "light shadow" (not a light
grey shadow but shadowing the light). It can conceal much, even from
ourselves.

If that gets turned around, it's possible to be blinded by the 'light'.

Or have the light blinded by self.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

... a "light shadow" wouldn't conceal too much.

How about if you turn that around to read a "light shadow" (not a light
grey shadow but shadowing the light). It can conceal much, even from
ourselves.

Post by sâr`châsm
If that gets turned around, it's possible to be blinded by the 'light'.

Or have the light blinded by self.

That would be the self-deceptive false shadows caused by the angle of the
'light'. No light, no shadows. Since there is light, there's always the
potential for shadows and deeper darkness.

[Aine]

Post by sâr`châsm
There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?

Aine knows that Isis is not a sock.<

That is not a true statement.

Aine is being a jealous hateful
ol'biddy.<

No, I have been honest from the start and you do not like what I am
saying about her.

There is something very wrong/sick about the energy I pick up from
isis. It is so bad I will not scout her. You can have her. She can
have you.

[hy]

Post by Aine

Post by sâr`châsm
There's something fishy about that, hence the 'smell'?

Aine knows that Isis is not a sock.<

That is not a true statement.

Aine is being a jealous hateful
ol'biddy.<

No, I have been honest from the start and you do not like what I am
saying about her.
There is something very wrong/sick about the energy I pick up from
isis. It is so bad I will not scout her. You can have her. She can
have you.

Maybe it is just because you don't like soft kidness and think something
is wrong with it (this is not a judgement call, but if that truly is who
you are as you say, of course you would have issues with her).

[ren]

Post by Aine
There is something very wrong/sick about the energy I pick up from
isis. It is so bad I will not scout her. You can have her. She can
have you.

You're picking that up about yourself. It is your own jealous energy
that you sense.

[Aine]

Post by ren

Post by Aine
There is something very wrong/sick about the energy I pick up from
isis. It is so bad I will not scout her. You can have her. She can
have you.

You're picking that up about yourself. It is your own jealous energy
that you sense.

Ren, I have no interest in you.

[ren]

Post by Aine
Ah, so you are in wiccantogether and post you have had dreams of dying
back to 2008. Seriously and ren gives me a bad time when I say you
energy smells like mildew, rot and decay. Like death. Geesh..ya post
in Wiccan and pagan groups and ya cannot handle what you already have
problems with.

She also knows that we're pulling back all the punches.

[ren]

Aine,
We're just having a light conversation, and a little humor.  Relax.
Not to mention, I'd really appreciate if you'd STOP with the constant
harassment.  For a woman of your age, it looks really immature.

Furthermore, Aine's blind hatred and jealousy made her overlook my
obvious emission of Earth from our circle of 5 elements.

[ren]

Ren, you forgot Earth!  : )

Ah, but you have found it! Good show!

[storm]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who initiated
the first witch?"

I've always answered, "The Goddess", but no one seems to buy into it.
They all smile and say, "That's clever, storm." when I was thinking
more along the line of "That's obvious!" It's one of those Zen
questions that actually have an answer.

Post by ren
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the member's
beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in which the
male and female are equally important. Our religious symbol, the
pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water, the elements of
nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and god by
attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the Moon, the
Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the greater good in
mind and try to treat each other the way they wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions based on
your beliefs.

I was liking it until the "This defines you as a Wiccan." For some
reason that sentence does not work for me. I guess I am still of the
old school that there is no definition of Wicca and there shouldn't
be. Also, it is a lot more subtle than the few points you give.
Still, not bad for an "elevator speech" as I have heard it referred
to, a brief capsule definition for those not necessarily requiring
more information.

And you left out Earth. All your circles will be lopsided and wobbly!

-storm

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente,
"Who initiated the first witch?"
I've always answered, "The Goddess", but no one seems
to buy into it.

It's actually a more common response than you might think because it's one
of those claims that cannot be verified, (which is why some use the same
claim when supposedly 'self-initiating' as a wiccan - when what they are
actually doing is a self-dedication, not the same thing).

Post by ren
It's one of those Zen questions that actually have an answer.

If it has an answer, then it's not really a Zen question, is it?

[Evergreen the Magician]

Post by storm

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente, "Who
initiated the first witch?"

I've always answered, "The Goddess", but no one seems to buy
into it. They all smile and say, "That's clever, storm." when I
was thinking more along the line of "That's obvious!" It's one
of those Zen questions that actually have an answer.

A goddess that doesn't even exist outside of your imagination.

And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans, "witches"?
"Witch" is just one of many synonyms for "magician" and you can't
become a magician by performing a silly ritual and saying you
are one. Nor do any supposed gods or goddesses have anything
to do with magick. Magicians do not worship anything.

Post by storm

Post by ren
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald Gardner,
promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.
So what really defines a member of the Wiccan religion is the
member's beliefs.
Here is a core belief of Wicca or two.
Wicca is a religion of Neo-Pagan fertility nature worship in
which the male and female are equally important. Our religious
symbol, the pentagram, represents Spirit, Air, Fire and Water,
the elements of nature.
Wiccans work magick as sons and daughters of the goddess and
god by attuning to nature's rhythms such as the cycles of the
Moon, the Equinoxes and Solstices. They work magick with the
greater good in mind and try to treat each other the way they
wish to be treated.
This defines you as a Wiccan. Your beliefs and your actions
based on your beliefs.

I was liking it until the "This defines you as a Wiccan." For
some reason that sentence does not work for me.
I guess I am still of the old school that there is no
definition of Wicca and there shouldn't be.

That is utterly absurd. Your intellectual dishonesty borders
on the pathological.

Post by storm
Also, it is a lot more subtle than the few points you give.
Still, not bad for an "elevator speech" as I have heard
it referred to, a brief capsule definition for those not
necessarily requiring more information.
And you left out Earth. All your circles will be lopsided and
wobbly!
-storm

Here we have two people playing the role of witches who can't
do any magick at all. They are deluded. They are lost in their
role-playing game and have lost touch with reality.

Sid

[sâr`châsm]

you can't become a magician by performing a silly ritual and saying
you are one.

Nor can you waltz in here and claim to be an "apprentice magician" or, a
"magician" and be one just by claiming to be.

Your intellectual dishonesty borders on the pathological.

Whereas the overall level of sidiot's general dishonesty regularly crosses
the border like a migrant troll.

Here we have two people [sidiot and evergreen, who aren't really "two"
people afterall] playing the role of witches who can't do any magick at
all.
They are deluded.

The sidiot troll arrived in arw in a predeluded state and the evergreen will
someday leave in the same way.

They are lost in their role-playing game and have lost touch with reality.

Like when sidiot pretended to be a "wiccan priest" to role-play as a troll?

[sâr`châsm]

At 5:40 PM on 3/29/2010, "Evergreen the Moron" trolled and yet ...

From: Evergreen the Moron ***@sacrificialofferring
Subject: Re: Countless Times, You are a Wiccan If,
X-Affiliation: The Moron's Guild
Message-ID: <***@3f8s2dcr5.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: $$-dwdil-linws.news.x-privat.org
Organization: X-Privat.Org NNTP Server - http://www.x-privat.org

Date: 30 Mar 2010 01:40:50 +0100

Greenwich meantime or, evergreen faux witch trolltime?

[Aine]

Post by sâr`châsm
At 5:40 PM on 3/29/2010, "Evergreen the Moron" trolled and yet ...
Subject: Re: Countless Times, You are a Wiccan If,
X-Affiliation: The Moron's Guild
NNTP-Posting-Host: $$-dwdil-linws.news.x-privat.org
Organization: X-Privat.Org NNTP Server -http://www.x-privat.org
Date: 30 Mar 2010  01:40:50 +0100
Greenwich meantime or, evergreen faux witch trolltime?

Ren/sid big ole mistake time. It has happened before. I brought it up
and it was brushed off by "both" as if covering their eyes and ears to
it would make it go away. The game then continues on. Like if someone
pegged Col Mustard in the Library with the lead pipe..got it right and
everyone goes on playing like the person never guessed the right
murderer.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
At 5:40 PM on 3/29/2010, "Evergreen the Moron" trolled and yet ...
Subject: Re: Countless Times, You are a Wiccan If,
X-Affiliation: The Moron's Guild
NNTP-Posting-Host: $$-dwdil-linws.news.x-privat.org
Organization: X-Privat.Org NNTP Server -http://www.x-privat.org
Date: 30 Mar 2010 01:40:50 +0100
Greenwich meantime or, evergreen faux witch trolltime?
Ren/sid big ole mistake time. It has happened before.

Yeah, those "nat green meds" & "merlin" 'nyms and another used to do that
cheap trick before too.

Post by sâr`châsm
I brought it up and it was brushed off by "both" as if covering
their eyes and ears to it would make it go away. The game then
continues on.

Does that actually work for them or, do they just believe it does?

Post by sâr`châsm
Like if someone pegged Col Mustard in the Library with the
lead pipe..got it right and everyone goes on playing like the
person never guessed the right murderer.

The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste time
guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person. If they
weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking that bait.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm
At 5:40 PM on 3/29/2010, "Evergreen the Moron" trolled and yet ...
Subject: Re: Countless Times, You are a Wiccan If,
X-Affiliation: The Moron's Guild
NNTP-Posting-Host: $$-dwdil-linws.news.x-privat.org
Organization: X-Privat.Org NNTP Server -http://www.x-privat.org
Date: 30 Mar 2010 01:40:50 +0100
Greenwich meantime or, evergreen faux witch trolltime?
Ren/sid big ole mistake time. It has happened before.

Yeah, those "nat green meds" & "merlin" 'nyms and another used to do that
cheap trick before too.

Post by sâr`châsm
I brought it up and it was brushed off by "both" as if covering
their eyes and ears to it would make it go away. The game then
continues on.

Does that actually work for them or, do they just believe it does?

Post by sâr`châsm
Like if someone pegged Col Mustard in the Library with the
lead pipe..got it right and everyone goes on playing like the
person never guessed the right murderer.

The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste time
guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person. If they
weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking that bait.

I just read the posters as individuals. I don't care if they are socks
or not. They can be seperate in my mind. I don't waste my time trying to
think if someone is someone else. That sort of thing is boggling and
unnessary and a waste of time.

You are, who you are because that is who you need to be at the time and
it has nothing to do with me.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste time
guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person. If
they weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking that
bait.

I just read the posters as individuals. I don't care if they are socks
or not. They can be seperate in my mind. I don't waste my time trying to
think if someone is someone else. That sort of thing is boggling and
unnessary and a waste of time.
It is usually a waste of time, yet if the socks are old posters trying to
conceal their 'nyms in order to try 'punking' others, it'd be a foray into
self-delusion rather than faking anyone out into saying what they wouldn't
if the sock weren't socking.
You are, who you are because that is who you need to be at
the time and it has nothing to do with me.
They aren't who there appear to be though. That's the point of most
sockpuppetry, isn't it? [with sidiot, it's flame-trolling]

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste
time guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person.
If they weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking
that bait.

I just read the posters as individuals. I don't care if they are socks
or not. They can be seperate in my mind. I don't waste my time trying to
think if someone is someone else. That sort of thing is boggling and
unnessary and a waste of time.
It is usually a waste of time, yet if the socks are old posters trying to
conceal their 'nyms in order to try 'punking' others, it'd be a foray into
self-delusion rather than faking anyone out into saying what they wouldn't
if the sock weren't socking.
You are, who you are because that is who you need to be at
the time and it has nothing to do with me.
They aren't who [they] appear to be though. That's the point of most
sockpuppetry, isn't it? [with sidiot, it's flame-trolling]

As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a slight
incompatibility problem.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste
time guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person.
If they weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking
that bait.

I just read the posters as individuals. I don't care if they are socks
or not. They can be seperate in my mind. I don't waste my time trying to
think if someone is someone else. That sort of thing is boggling and
unnessary and a waste of time.
It is usually a waste of time, yet if the socks are old posters trying to
conceal their 'nyms in order to try 'punking' others, it'd be a foray into
self-delusion rather than faking anyone out into saying what they wouldn't
if the sock weren't socking.
You are, who you are because that is who you need to be at
the time and it has nothing to do with me.
They aren't who [they] appear to be though. That's the point of most
sockpuppetry, isn't it? [with sidiot, it's flame-trolling]

As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a slight
incompatibility problem.

lol ya i see that it got us mixed up as well.

I find it helps to add more spaces between peoples discussion, because
if you back up it gets mixed up thinking you/me/I/them are someone else.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a
slight incompatibility problem.

lol ya i see that it got us mixed up as well.

Thunderbird is a 'free' newsreader from Mozilla, right?

Post by hy
I find it helps to add more spaces between peoples discussion, because if
you back up it gets mixed up thinking you/me/I/them are someone else.

Tried adding spaces in the earlier post but, your Thunderingblunder reader
still mashed the text together, (even if spurious carets are added). Maybe
Thunderbird is 'allergic' to carets.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a
slight incompatibility problem.

lol ya i see that it got us mixed up as well.

Thunderbird is a 'free' newsreader from Mozilla, right?

Yes. I like it because it is similar to the olden days program I used to
use. Was that Modzilla? Easy to use, fast to post, fast to get others
responses.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I find it helps to add more spaces between peoples discussion, because if
you back up it gets mixed up thinking you/me/I/them are someone else.

Tried adding spaces in the earlier post but, your Thunderingblunder reader
still mashed the text together, (even if spurious carets are added). Maybe
Thunderbird is 'allergic' to carets.

NOOOOO... not thunderbird. Maybe we need birdseed? What do thunderbirds eat?

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a
slight incompatibility problem.

Post by hy
lol ya i see that it got us mixed up as well.

Thunderbird is a 'free' newsreader from Mozilla, right?

Yes. I like it because it is similar to the olden days program I used to
use.

It appears to have a few minor drawbacks from the reading-posts end of
things but, those aren't for the senders of post to correct.

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I find it helps to add more spaces between peoples discussion, because
if you back up it gets mixed up thinking you/me/I/them are someone else.

Tried adding spaces in the earlier post but, your Thunderingblunder
reader still mashed the text together, (even if spurious carets are
added). Maybe Thunderbird is 'allergic' to carets.

NOOOOO... not thunderbird. Maybe we need birdseed? What do thunderbirds eat?

Obviously, yours 'eats' spaces. You need to feed it more space.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
As an aside, it seems that your Thunderbird newsreader has trouble
displaying separation in posted replies from other newsreaders as a
slight incompatibility problem.

Post by hy
lol ya i see that it got us mixed up as well.

Thunderbird is a 'free' newsreader from Mozilla, right?

Yes. I like it because it is similar to the olden days program I used to
use.

It appears to have a few minor drawbacks from the reading-posts end of
things but, those aren't for the senders of post to correct.

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I find it helps to add more spaces between peoples discussion, because
if you back up it gets mixed up thinking you/me/I/them are someone else.

Tried adding spaces in the earlier post but, your Thunderingblunder
reader still mashed the text together, (even if spurious carets are
added). Maybe Thunderbird is 'allergic' to carets.

NOOOOO... not thunderbird. Maybe we need birdseed? What do thunderbirds eat?

Obviously, yours 'eats' spaces. You need to feed it more space.

hah. okay, I will try that out.
I am going to bed and will answer your deeper posts tomorrow.
goodnight.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by hy

Post by hy
What do thunderbirds eat?
Obviously, yours 'eats' spaces. You need to feed it more space.

hah. okay, I will try that out.

And, it's only fair for you to pick up after it when it craps in public
places. Baggies won't help; this is usenet.

Post by hy
I am going to bed and will answer your deeper posts tomorrow.
goodnight.

Sounds time-consuming, since all of my posts are 'deep', (except for the
ones which aren't and definitely not the ones sidiot believes aren't).

[hy]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm
The unspoken implication would be that the sock wants people to waste time
guessing whose hand is deluding the other hand of the same person. If
they weren't so clueless, they might realize that no one is taking that
bait.

I just read the posters as individuals. I don't care if they are socks
or not. They can be seperate in my mind. I don't waste my time trying to
think if someone is someone else. That sort of thing is boggling and
unnessary and a waste of time.
It is usually a waste of time, yet if the socks are old posters trying to
conceal their 'nyms in order to try 'punking' others, it'd be a foray into
self-delusion rather than faking anyone out into saying what they wouldn't
if the sock weren't socking.
You are, who you are because that is who you need to be at
the time and it has nothing to do with me.
They aren't who there appear to be though. That's the point of most
sockpuppetry, isn't it? [with sidiot, it's flame-trolling]

Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do
you feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the
years for various reasons.

[sâr`châsm]

Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do you
feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I'd say that if I suspect someone of being a troll, (only after they've
provided sufficient evidence of trolling), I tend to treat them as being
insincere in their intent.

I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the years
for various reasons.

A newsgroup such as arw is most likely not the best place to be overly open.

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do you
feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I'd say that if I suspect someone of being a troll, (only after they've
provided sufficient evidence of trolling), I tend to treat them as being
insincere in their intent.

Makes sense. But then this is also more of a long term commitment for
you. You invest a lot of time here and in the people behind the scenes.

Post by sâr`châsm

I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the years
for various reasons.

A newsgroup such as arw is most likely not the best place to be overly open.

I just don't feel like starting some other place. I have never really
felt attached to other places that talk about this sort of stuff.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do
you feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I'd say that if I suspect someone of being a troll, (only after they've
provided sufficient evidence of trolling), I tend to treat them as being
insincere in their intent.
Makes sense. But then this is also more of a long term commitment for you.
You invest a lot of time here and in the people behind the scenes.

While I might spend a little more time here than you do, it isn't a large
percentage of my time. True, I have been here, (on and off), for over a
decade, however, so have you in that respect. As for people behind any
scenes, some I've met and some I haven't. You've met some I have and yet,
all that tells you is that I'm not a sock, (although I have and do
occasionally engage in trolling the trolls but, not until they initiate
their trollings).

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by hy
I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the
years for various reasons.

A newsgroup such as arw is most likely not the best place to be overly open.

I just don't feel like starting some other place. I have never really felt
attached to other places that talk about this sort of stuff.

What about alt.magick? Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?

[hy]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do
you feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I'd say that if I suspect someone of being a troll, (only after they've
provided sufficient evidence of trolling), I tend to treat them as being
insincere in their intent.
Makes sense. But then this is also more of a long term commitment for you.
You invest a lot of time here and in the people behind the scenes.

While I might spend a little more time here than you do, it isn't a large
percentage of my time. True, I have been here, (on and off), for over a
decade, however, so have you in that respect. As for people behind any
scenes, some I've met and some I haven't. You've met some I have and yet,
all that tells you is that I'm not a sock, (although I have and do
occasionally engage in trolling the trolls but, not until they initiate
their trollings).

I know hey.. a decade or more.
And lots of relationships.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by hy
I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the
years for various reasons.

A newsgroup such as arw is most likely not the best place to be overly open.

I just don't feel like starting some other place. I have never really felt
attached to other places that talk about this sort of stuff.

What about alt.magick? Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?

I do not feel connected to it. I don't know anyone. There is no romance
in the occult over there, and lots of socks. Ya, there I see socks :)

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I know hey.. a decade or more.
And lots of relationships.

Some things have changed, some have remained about the same. Still no
flying cars readily available though.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
I just don't feel like starting some other place. I have never really
felt attached to other places that talk about this sort of stuff.

What about alt.magick? Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?
I do not feel connected to it. I don't know anyone. There is no romance in
the occult over there, and lots of socks. Ya, there I see socks :)

Maybe the socks are romancing one another and it's all some sort of
pseudo-sacred sock-hop dance.

[Aine]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm
What about alt.magick?  Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?
I do not feel connected to it. I don't know anyone. There is no romance in
the occult over there, and lots of socks. Ya, there I see socks :)

Maybe the socks are romancing one another and it's all some sort of
pseudo-sacred sock-hop dance.<

Conjurs up a really bad Harlequin Romance Novel book cover.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

What about alt.magick? Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?
I do not feel connected to it. I don't know anyone. There is no romance in
the occult over there, and lots of socks. Ya, there I see socks :)

Maybe the socks are romancing one another and it's all some sort of
pseudo-sacred sock-hop dance.<
Conjurs up a really bad Harlequin Romance Novel book cover.

If that's a cover with poodle skirts and buzz-cuts on it, that may appeal to
many of the alt.magick posters.

[Aine]

Post by hy

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy
Ya, trolls come and go and go and go and go.. we are used to those. Do
you feel like you say less to them or more than normal?

I'd say that if I suspect someone of being a troll, (only after they've
provided sufficient evidence of trolling), I tend to treat them as being
insincere in their intent.
Makes sense. But then this is also more of a long term commitment for you.
You invest a lot of time here and in the people behind the scenes.

While I might spend a little more time here than you do, it isn't a large
percentage of my time.  True, I have been here, (on and off), for over a
decade, however, so have you in that respect.  As for people behind any
scenes, some I've met and some I haven't.  You've met some I have and yet,
all that tells you is that I'm not a sock, (although I have and do
occasionally engage in trolling the trolls but, not until they initiate
their trollings).

I know hey.. a decade or more.
And lots of relationships.

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by hy

Post by hy
I think I behave the same as I usually do, except less open over the
years for various reasons.

A newsgroup such as arw is most likely not the best place to be overly open.

I just don't feel like starting some other place. I have never really felt
attached to other places that talk about this sort of stuff.

What about alt.magick?  Too dry and dusty or, musty as compared with arw?

I do not feel connected to it. I don't know anyone. There is no romance
in the occult over there, and lots of socks. Ya, there I see socks :)- Hide quoted text -

Romance in the occult? Socks are bad there but here they are who they
need to be at the time and that is all right?

[ren]

On Mar 30, 9:40 am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
A goddess that doesn't even exist outside of your imagination.

You're dismissed.

[storm]

On Mar 29, 6:40 pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans, "witches"?

No.

You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than I can control
yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates your powerlessness over
me or anyone else. So much for your claims of magic or any other
power. More interestingly, it demonstrates your frustrated desire to
have such power over other people, a desire you would rant and rave
about in anyone else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.

-storm

[Evergreen the Magician]

On Mar 29, 6:40=A0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans,
"witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?

You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.

'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.

It takes years of hard work.

It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.

Sid

[Aine]

On Mar 30, 9:54 am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 29, 6:40=A0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans,
"witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?
You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.
'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.
It takes years of hard work.
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.<

Hard how if all beliefs are spells?

[Evergreen the Magician]

On Mar 30, 9:54=A0am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 29, 6:40=3DA0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans,
"witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?
You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.
'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.
It takes years of hard work.
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.<

Hard how if all beliefs are spells?

So you have been paying attention :-)

Intellectually grasping the concept is one thing.

You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Experiencing the truth of that statement and learning to navigate
in the new world (which is just the old one seen accurately for
the first time) revealed by this experience is another thing

That simple statement comes from a worldview, a science,
diametrically out-of-phase with the worldview that dominates this
culture/civilization.

Physical science is not only a religion, it is the most
inaccurate religion that has ever existed.

The Dark Ages did not end, they just got worse. The
"Enlightenment" was just the opposite. _This_ is Humanity's
darkest age. We have never been so lost.

Sid

[Alrah]

On 30 Mar, 20:07, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 30, 9:54=A0am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 29, 6:40=3DA0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans, "witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?
You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.
'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.
It takes years of hard work.
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.<

Hard how if all beliefs are spells?

So you have been paying attention :-)
Intellectually grasping the concept is one thing.
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.
Experiencing the truth of that statement and learning to navigate
in the new world (which is just the old one seen accurately for
the first time) revealed by this experience is another thing
That simple statement comes from a worldview, a science,
diametrically out-of-phase with the worldview that dominates this
culture/civilization.
Physical science is not only a religion, it is the most
inaccurate religion that has ever existed.
The Dark Ages did not end, they just got worse. The
"Enlightenment" was just the opposite. _This_ is Humanity's
darkest age. We have never been so lost.
Sid
--
Sidney Lambe
Apprentice Magicianhttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
eman30890 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You've been fishing downstream for so long in the stench of your own
manure you've dropped there that you hardly recognise or are cognizant
of anything else...

Nevertheless... where there is life there is light - and there is no
hell where the roots of the trees quest.

[Evergreen the Magician]

Post by Alrah
On 30 Mar, 20:07, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 30, 9:54=A0am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 29, 6:40=3DA0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans, "witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?
You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.
'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.
It takes years of hard work.
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.<

Hard how if all beliefs are spells?

So you have been paying attention :-)
Intellectually grasping the concept is one thing.
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.
Experiencing the truth of that statement and learning to navigate
in the new world (which is just the old one seen accurately for
the first time) revealed by this experience is another thing
That simple statement comes from a worldview, a science,
diametrically out-of-phase with the worldview that dominates this
culture/civilization.
Physical science is not only a religion, it is the most
inaccurate religion that has ever existed.
The Dark Ages did not end, they just got worse. The
"Enlightenment" was just the opposite. _This_ is Humanity's
darkest age. We have never been so lost.

You've been fishing downstream for so long in the stench of your own
manure you've dropped there that you hardly recognise or are cognizant
of anything else...
Nevertheless... where there is life there is light - and there is no
hell where the roots of the trees quest.

Says another bookmage who can't make water wet with magick.

(that's according to _his_ ignorant defintion of magick)

All he can do is spout psuedo-esoteric woo-woo that isn't
good for anything but playing the role.

Sid

[Tom]

On Mar 30, 12:07 pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Nor can you actually play the piano just by believing that you can,
which is exactly how Sid thinks he can learn to be a magician.

[Aine]

Post by Tom
On Mar 30, 12:07 pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Nor can you actually play the piano just by believing that you can,
which is exactly how Sid thinks he can learn to be a magician.

Now actually, when I was young, about 7.....I did play the piano
because I thought I could. By ear.
It was only when my parents and babysitter kept saying, "we need to
put her in piano lessons, she is a natural" that I stopped playing
because I thought I needed lessons.

[Joseph Littleshoes]

Post by Aine

On Mar 30, 12:07�pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Nor can you actually play the piano just by believing that you can,
which is exactly how Sid thinks he can learn to be a magician.

Now actually, when I was young, about 7.....I did play the piano
because I thought I could. By ear.
It was only when my parents and babysitter kept saying, "we need to
put her in piano lessons, she is a natural" that I stopped playing
because I thought I needed lessons.

I had a similar phenomena occur as a very young child, but where and
when i was brought up it ws considered unseemly for a male to play the
piano and i was stuck into accordion lessons:(
--
JL

[Aine]

Post by Joseph Littleshoes

Post by Aine

On Mar 30, 12:07 pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Nor can you actually play the piano just by believing that you can,
which is exactly how Sid thinks he can learn to be a magician.

Now actually, when I was young, about 7.....I did play the piano
because I thought I could. By ear.
It was only when my parents and babysitter kept saying, "we need to
put her in piano lessons, she is a natural" that I stopped playing
because I thought I needed lessons.

I had a similar phenomena occur as a very young child, but where and
when i was brought up it ws considered unseemly for a male to play the
piano and i was stuck into accordion lessons:(
--
JL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Just turn the piano on it's side and move it back and forth.. Lemonade
Joseph.. ;)

[Joseph Littleshoes]

On Mar 30, 12:07�pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Nor can you actually play the piano just by believing that you can,
which is exactly how Sid thinks he can learn to be a magician.

*Chuckle* depends on how "play the piano" is defined, as well as "well"
.... ultimately all standards of measurement are arbitrary and for
convenience only.

Of course "Tom" is right that an individual is not going to become a
classically trained concert pianist without the requisite and intense
training required to master the tool and art.

However the origins of "Ragtime" music might suggest that the ability to
play the piano as well as anything else is established by the belief
that one can, or, even the belief in ones desire to do so.

If we compare such a scenario to "Magic" and the becoming of "Magicians"
let us not forget the ideas of 'magick" as metaphor.

We are all born magicians, and life is the great teacher and school of
initiation where by we accomplish the miracle of incarnation.

Thus our "belief" in our ability to become magicians is the basis for
any growth in that area of life.
--
JL

[Tom]

On Mar 30, 12:07 pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.

Since Sid, by his own admission, has not yet learned to be a magician,
it seems more than a little presumptuous of him to present his
untested beliefs about learning magic as if they were authoritative
statements.

[W RVH]

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 30, 9:54=A0am, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician

On Mar 29, 6:40=3DA0pm, Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
And would you please leave off with this calling Wiccans, "witches"?

No.
You can no more control my vocabulary on the usenet than
I can control yours. Object all you like. It demonstrates
your powerlessness over me or anyone else. So much for your
claims of magic or any other power. More interestingly, it
demonstrates your frustrated desire to have such power over
other people, a desire you would rant and rave about in anyone
else. Such terribly painful hypocrisy to live with.
-storm

So asking for intellectual honesty is an attempt to dominate
people? Are you for real?
You can call a rock an apple if you want. Doesn't make it so.
Wiccans are no more witches than rocks are apples.
'Witch' is just one of many synomyms for 'magician' and you can't
become a magician by performing a simple ritual and saying
you are one.
It takes years of hard work.
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.<

Hard how if all beliefs are spells?

So you have been paying attention :-)
Intellectually grasping the concept is one thing.
You can no more learn to be a magician by reading about it and
talking about it than you can learn to play the piano by reading
about and talking about it.
Experiencing the truth of that statement and learning to navigate
in the new world (which is just the old one seen accurately for
the first time) revealed by this experience is another thing
That simple statement comes from a worldview, a science,
diametrically out-of-phase with the worldview that dominates this
culture/civilization.
Physical science is not only a religion, it is the most
inaccurate religion that has ever existed.
The Dark Ages did not end, they just got worse. The
"Enlightenment" was just the opposite. _This_ is Humanity's
darkest age. We have never been so lost.
Sid

Yes I know lots of people who call themselves, wiccans and so on, but
not witches. Regardless of the pretended origins of the word wiccan, in
it's use in our times, it is a euphemism only for those who either don't
want to be known as being a witch. The other point is that I have
noticed that those who call themselves wiccans are more likely to be
interested in approval than magick, ot the actual Old Religion, which
most certainly had no need to be approved of by the congregational level
of the event.

Wolf

[Evergreen the Magician]

Post by Evergreen the Magician
It takes years of hard work.

.and Vaseline so that I can get my fist all the way up my own ass.

Post by Evergreen the Magician
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.

I enjoy fisting my own ass. I wish you would fist my ass.

But seriously, why would you listen to me? I'm a homeless heroine addict that
constantly bothers people by asking for change.


Sid

[Aine]

On Mar 30, 11:15 am, "Evergreen the Magician"

Post by Evergreen the Magician

Post by Evergreen the Magician
It takes years of hard work.

.and Vaseline so that I can get my fist all the way up my own ass.

Post by Evergreen the Magician
It is very enjoyable and rewarding work, but hard work
never-the-less.

I enjoy fisting my own ass. I wish you would fist my ass.
But seriously, why would you listen to me?  I'm a homeless heroine addict that
constantly bothers people by asking for change.            
Sid

You should get a job, Ren.

[ren]

And you left out Earth.  All your circles will be lopsided and wobbly!
-storm

And the fact that you bothered to mention my mistake means that I can
still trust you storm.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren
In the words of Our Mother of Wicca, Doreen Valiente,
"Who initiated the first witch?"
By these words alone, the female complement to Gerald
Gardner, promoted Self-Dedication to Wicca.

Yet, initiation is not synonymous with self-dedication, despite some common
misuse of the terms as being interchangeable.

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm
Yet, initiation is not synonymous with self-dedication, despite some common
misuse of the terms as being interchangeable.

Agreed.

I used to say Self-Initiation. I realize that I was wrong. I now use
the phrase 'Self-Dedication'.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
Yet, initiation is not synonymous with self-dedication, despite
some common misuse of the terms as being interchangeable.
Agreed.
I used to say Self-Initiation. I realize that I was wrong. I now
use the phrase 'Self-Dedication'.

So, Doreen's non-rhetorical question becomes, "who self-dedicated the first
witch?" And the answer is not 'the goddess'.

[storm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm
Yet, initiation is not synonymous with self-dedication, despite
some common misuse of the terms as being interchangeable.
Agreed.
I used to say Self-Initiation. I realize that I was wrong. I now
use the phrase 'Self-Dedication'.

So, Doreen's non-rhetorical question becomes, "who self-dedicated the first
witch?" And the answer is not 'the goddess'.

At which point the answer becomes, "The first witch, Gotta problem
with that?" because no self-respecting witch is going to listen to
anyone else's objections to such an event.

Of course, as has been pointed out, any flake can come up with such a
claim. It takes a while of knowing someone to know how well the claim
can be claimed. Despite the tendency of many people to snap
judgement, it takes a while to know and understand another person
enough to "Feel" if they are a witch.

-storm

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm

Post by sâr`châsm
Yet, initiation is not synonymous with self-dedication, despite
some common misuse of the terms as being interchangeable.
Agreed.
I used to say Self-Initiation. I realize that I was wrong. I now
use the phrase 'Self-Dedication'.

So, Doreen's non-rhetorical question becomes, "who self-dedicated
the first witch?" And the answer is not 'the goddess'.
At which point the answer becomes, "The first witch, Gotta problem
with that?" because no self-respecting witch is going to listen to
anyone else's objections to such an event.

So, the question becomes a non-rhetorical one and a new question arises
regarding what is intended by "self-initiation", (and in what context that
term is used).

Post by sâr`châsm
Of course, as has been pointed out, any flake can come up with
such a claim.

Many do, however, it doesn't matter what is claimed if such a claim is
false. If the content of the claim is true, it will be evident without
making the claim.

Post by sâr`châsm
It takes a while of knowing someone to know how well the claim
can be claimed. Despite the tendency of many people to snap
judgement, it takes a while to know and understand another
person enough to "Feel" if they are a witch.
-storm

Are you saying that it takes a 'witch' to know a 'witch'?

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm
So, Doreen's non-rhetorical question becomes, "who self-dedicated the first
witch?" And the answer is not 'the goddess'.

The first witch dedicated herself.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by sâr`châsm
So, Doreen's non-rhetorical question becomes, "who self-dedicated
the first witch?" And the answer is not 'the goddess'.
The first witch dedicated herself.

Which means Doreen's question is rhetorical after all.

[ren]

Post by sâr`châsm
Which means Doreen's question is rhetorical after all.

It is.

[sâr`châsm]

Post by ren

Post by sâr`châsm
Which means Doreen's question is rhetorical after all.

It is.

However, it may not have been perceived to be so in its original form.